1 00:00:22,350 --> 00:00:09,080 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:28,630 --> 00:00:25,000 hello and welcome to the skeptics iron 3 00:00:31,570 --> 00:00:28,640 episode number 274 for the 17th of 4 00:00:34,390 --> 00:00:31,580 january 2014 Richard Saunders here with 5 00:00:37,210 --> 00:00:34,400 you from Sydney Australia which is one 6 00:00:40,299 --> 00:00:37,220 of the few places in Australia not 7 00:00:42,850 --> 00:00:40,309 really getting the full horror of the 8 00:00:44,470 --> 00:00:42,860 current heat wave and my thoughts go out 9 00:00:47,350 --> 00:00:44,480 to those people in South Australia and 10 00:00:51,460 --> 00:00:47,360 Victoria and as I speak there are people 11 00:00:53,170 --> 00:00:51,470 in Victoria being told to batten down 12 00:00:54,460 --> 00:00:53,180 the hatches don't leave their homes 13 00:00:56,439 --> 00:00:54,470 because it's too late the fires 14 00:00:59,549 --> 00:00:56,449 approaching it's not a good situation my 15 00:01:01,509 --> 00:00:59,559 friends you may wish to check your news 16 00:01:03,610 --> 00:01:01,519 resources on the internet to see what 17 00:01:06,940 --> 00:01:03,620 the fire situation is in Australia it's 18 00:01:09,310 --> 00:01:06,950 been bloody hot but what's coming up on 19 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:09,320 this week's episode of the skeptic zone 20 00:01:14,050 --> 00:01:11,930 I catch up to a very dear old friend of 21 00:01:18,070 --> 00:01:14,060 mine Susan go back from the guerrilla 22 00:01:20,980 --> 00:01:18,080 skepticism outreach program initiative 23 00:01:23,980 --> 00:01:20,990 oh it's so fun it's so nice to see Susan 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:23,990 at the amazing meetings in a Las Vegas 25 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:27,050 from time to time she's always so happy 26 00:01:34,300 --> 00:01:31,910 and friendly and so enthusiastic so 27 00:01:37,180 --> 00:01:34,310 enthusiastic and keen to do things she's 28 00:01:39,340 --> 00:01:37,190 a real inspiration Susan's going to tell 29 00:01:41,350 --> 00:01:39,350 us all about the current state of a 30 00:01:43,660 --> 00:01:41,360 guerrilla skepticism and what you can do 31 00:01:48,250 --> 00:01:43,670 to help and also we're going to discuss 32 00:01:50,830 --> 00:01:48,260 her approach her journey if you want to 33 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:50,840 use that terminology through her recent 34 00:01:56,380 --> 00:01:53,990 breast cancer treatment resulting in her 35 00:01:59,190 --> 00:01:56,390 loss of hair and how she's dealt with 36 00:02:01,450 --> 00:01:59,200 that again Susan we are an inspiration 37 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:01,460 following that it's a wig in science 38 00:02:07,660 --> 00:02:02,690 from our good friends at the Royal 39 00:02:11,259 --> 00:02:07,670 Institution of Australia w WR IA us ova 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:11,269 you this week the Royal Institution are 41 00:02:15,220 --> 00:02:12,530 going to be looking at the Drake 42 00:02:17,350 --> 00:02:15,230 Equation here's their life out there 43 00:02:20,559 --> 00:02:17,360 folks is there life out there on other 44 00:02:24,070 --> 00:02:20,569 parents welder I probably would have to 45 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:24,080 say yes somewhere in the vastness of 46 00:02:29,770 --> 00:02:26,390 space there must be even if it's a 47 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:29,780 microbe that's coming up in a week in 48 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:31,609 science from the Royal Institution of 49 00:02:34,650 --> 00:02:33,130 Australia 50 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:34,660 and to round off the show me nerds 51 00:02:39,210 --> 00:02:37,090 spooky action more fantastic interviews 52 00:02:40,980 --> 00:02:39,220 from the Australian skeptics National 53 00:02:43,820 --> 00:02:40,990 Convention held just last year in 54 00:02:47,010 --> 00:02:43,830 Canberra this week may not chat stew 55 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:47,020 skeptic of the year professor Simon 56 00:02:53,820 --> 00:02:51,370 Chapman and they'll discuss his work in 57 00:02:56,910 --> 00:02:53,830 relation to science outreach and health 58 00:02:59,790 --> 00:02:56,920 matters clannad also speaks to chris 59 00:03:02,910 --> 00:02:59,800 kennedy director of the CSIRO discovery 60 00:03:06,270 --> 00:03:02,920 center and he and may not take a very 61 00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:06,280 close look at the land research mural a 62 00:03:12,330 --> 00:03:09,040 very famous mural in Canberra all about 63 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:12,340 science it's a fantastic fantastic thing 64 00:03:18,330 --> 00:03:16,090 to see and if you go to www pxo TV I 65 00:03:20,310 --> 00:03:18,340 just scroll down to the show notes for 66 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:20,320 this episode you can click on a link and 67 00:03:25,790 --> 00:03:23,170 see this mural for yourself and may not 68 00:03:29,810 --> 00:03:25,800 also talks to Dan buzzard about his 69 00:03:32,850 --> 00:03:29,820 activities and his work in fighting the 70 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:32,860 anti-vaccination movement and just 71 00:03:37,110 --> 00:03:35,050 before we get into the show it was such 72 00:03:39,690 --> 00:03:37,120 a pleasure to see our doctor Simon Singh 73 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:39,700 here in Sydney just last week what a 74 00:03:46,230 --> 00:03:42,490 wonderful man he is and I was very happy 75 00:03:48,270 --> 00:03:46,240 to give him a present for his son Harry 76 00:03:51,270 --> 00:03:48,280 who's only I think three or four very 77 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:51,280 young I gave him a copy of a DVD i did 78 00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:52,690 some years ago with a very good friend 79 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:55,120 of mine Gary Clark all about how to make 80 00:04:00,420 --> 00:03:57,930 origami and I was delighted that Simon 81 00:04:02,420 --> 00:04:00,430 twittered about that if you're 82 00:04:04,890 --> 00:04:02,430 interested it's called DVD origami 83 00:04:08,370 --> 00:04:04,900 myself and Gary Clark teach you how to 84 00:04:11,340 --> 00:04:08,380 make 20 origami models everything from 85 00:04:13,980 --> 00:04:11,350 birds to dinosaurs two hats step-by-step 86 00:04:17,070 --> 00:04:13,990 instructions if you go to www skeptics 87 00:04:20,670 --> 00:04:17,080 on TV just scroll down and on the Left 88 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:20,680 you'll see DVD origami you might enjoy 89 00:04:25,980 --> 00:04:23,770 it and also I see in the news just today 90 00:04:28,910 --> 00:04:25,990 that there's been and I hate to use this 91 00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:28,920 term I really do a breakthrough in 92 00:04:35,370 --> 00:04:32,320 medicine when it comes to restoring 93 00:04:37,590 --> 00:04:35,380 vision using gene therapy wow what an 94 00:04:40,770 --> 00:04:37,600 exciting time to live let's see 95 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:40,780 superstition top that but for now I'm 96 00:04:44,100 --> 00:04:42,370 going to run to the fridge have some 97 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:44,110 more ice water in fact I'm going to 98 00:04:49,410 --> 00:04:45,910 cheat I have some right here 99 00:04:51,570 --> 00:04:49,420 in this bottle it's that sort of a day 100 00:04:55,070 --> 00:04:51,580 folks i might even also have a peanut 101 00:04:59,460 --> 00:04:55,080 butter sandwich or a peanut butter and 102 00:05:02,400 --> 00:04:59,470 golden syrup sandwich whoa decadent hmm 103 00:05:21,999 --> 00:05:02,410 well I'm doing that I hope you enjoy the 104 00:05:26,809 --> 00:05:24,890 joining me now all the way from sunny 105 00:05:29,149 --> 00:05:26,819 spectacular well it's a bit cool this 106 00:05:33,140 --> 00:05:29,159 time of year California it's Susan Kovac 107 00:05:34,580 --> 00:05:33,150 hello Susan hi Richard it's really nice 108 00:05:35,749 --> 00:05:34,590 to see you've just for the benefit of 109 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:35,759 our listeners because we're actually 110 00:05:43,309 --> 00:05:37,770 video each other at the moment and there 111 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:43,319 you are beaming away at me so to speak 112 00:05:47,629 --> 00:05:45,090 listen I wanted to catch up with you for 113 00:05:50,119 --> 00:05:47,639 a long time now because I do play the 114 00:05:52,779 --> 00:05:50,129 little little clips and ads on the 115 00:05:55,670 --> 00:05:52,789 skeptic zone for guerrilla skepticism so 116 00:05:58,790 --> 00:05:55,680 can you give our listeners a bit of an 117 00:06:01,279 --> 00:05:58,800 overview on how that's all going how 118 00:06:04,309 --> 00:06:01,289 it's going and we do appreciate it i get 119 00:06:06,860 --> 00:06:04,319 listeners of yours every so often who 120 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:06,870 will write to me and volunteer their 121 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:09,050 services so we really do appreciate it 122 00:06:14,510 --> 00:06:11,610 so you want to know how we're going well 123 00:06:17,809 --> 00:06:14,520 we're going great it's actually going 124 00:06:21,619 --> 00:06:17,819 very well but I need a lot more a lot 125 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:21,629 more volunteers because it is you know 126 00:06:26,659 --> 00:06:23,370 being a volunteer organization it's a 127 00:06:31,129 --> 00:06:26,669 little difficult to force people to edit 128 00:06:32,659 --> 00:06:31,139 Wikipedia and once they volunteer they 129 00:06:35,629 --> 00:06:32,669 end up getting a little busy sometimes 130 00:06:37,939 --> 00:06:35,639 and there's a lot of work to be done yet 131 00:06:39,829 --> 00:06:37,949 there sure is and I can appreciate what 132 00:06:42,019 --> 00:06:39,839 you're saying when when you're working 133 00:06:44,209 --> 00:06:42,029 with a lot of one's volunteers you can't 134 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:44,219 really make them do something and people 135 00:06:47,779 --> 00:06:45,690 do this out of the goodness of their 136 00:06:50,269 --> 00:06:47,789 hearts if there or if their hearts are 137 00:06:51,950 --> 00:06:50,279 in it of course and you you're getting a 138 00:06:54,439 --> 00:06:51,960 lot of people all around the world 139 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:54,449 helping you out aren't you yes I am I 140 00:06:59,950 --> 00:06:57,810 just got another editor from another 141 00:07:05,629 --> 00:06:59,960 Spanish editor this one's an ERG way and 142 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:05,639 I have now to Hebrew editors and oh yeah 143 00:07:11,540 --> 00:07:08,849 I have I and it's great because we are 144 00:07:14,629 --> 00:07:11,550 able to converse this is kind of a 145 00:07:16,850 --> 00:07:14,639 perfect storm project we would never 146 00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:16,860 have been able to do this without the 147 00:07:22,850 --> 00:07:19,849 without email without facebook without 148 00:07:24,379 --> 00:07:22,860 things like Skype because we can 149 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:24,389 converse in real time with everyone 150 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:25,050 everywhere 151 00:07:28,339 --> 00:07:27,030 and it's just amazing to be able to do 152 00:07:31,010 --> 00:07:28,349 that kind of thing we couldn't have done 153 00:07:33,230 --> 00:07:31,020 this 10 or 15 years ago well wikipedia 154 00:07:35,570 --> 00:07:33,240 didn't really exist ten years ago but I 155 00:07:37,999 --> 00:07:35,580 mean 11 years ago is I think when it 156 00:07:40,129 --> 00:07:38,009 started but we it's only something that 157 00:07:43,219 --> 00:07:40,139 this is a project then only can be done 158 00:07:45,140 --> 00:07:43,229 now with the tools that we have I think 159 00:07:46,939 --> 00:07:45,150 you're absolutely right it's it's sort 160 00:07:48,619 --> 00:07:46,949 of a very appropriate thing for the time 161 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:48,629 now for those listeners who are 162 00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:51,090 relatively new to the skeptics on what 163 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:53,190 you're doing is you're getting people 164 00:07:56,330 --> 00:07:54,690 from all around the world who speak all 165 00:07:59,779 --> 00:07:56,340 sorts of different languages to come in 166 00:08:01,969 --> 00:07:59,789 and really do international versions of 167 00:08:04,459 --> 00:08:01,979 Wikipedia sites on you we compete your 168 00:08:07,510 --> 00:08:04,469 pages mm-hmm that's right we're trying 169 00:08:10,010 --> 00:08:07,520 to rewrite Wikipedia using focus on 170 00:08:12,140 --> 00:08:10,020 scientific skepticism and we're trying 171 00:08:14,809 --> 00:08:12,150 to do it in all languages we have a 172 00:08:17,209 --> 00:08:14,819 project called we got your wiki back 173 00:08:20,059 --> 00:08:17,219 which seems to be our most popular and 174 00:08:23,180 --> 00:08:20,069 what we do is we try to take prominent 175 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:23,190 skeptics who've written books or who do 176 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:26,690 podcasts or who are doing research 177 00:08:31,610 --> 00:08:29,130 investigations that kind of thing we're 178 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:31,620 trying to give those pages a boost and 179 00:08:36,469 --> 00:08:33,510 try to improve them we also do a lot of 180 00:08:38,569 --> 00:08:36,479 scientists pages the scientists we 181 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:38,579 usually choose our people who have 182 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:42,450 lectured for the skeptical community and 183 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:46,050 so on so our goal is to when that person 184 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:48,930 is in the media's I you know maybe 185 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:51,570 they're doing a program for nova or they 186 00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:55,170 have a book or a research project coming 187 00:08:59,000 --> 00:08:56,760 out or something like that they're going 188 00:09:01,639 --> 00:08:59,010 to be in the public's eye and we want 189 00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:01,649 people to be able to google the person's 190 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:04,649 name they're going to get a Wikipedia 191 00:09:08,660 --> 00:09:07,290 page probably most likely everybody 192 00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:08,670 knows that's one of the first hits they 193 00:09:12,530 --> 00:09:10,350 get and people are going to go check 194 00:09:14,540 --> 00:09:12,540 them out we want to make sure that that 195 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:14,550 page is in really great shape it's 196 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:19,770 really it shows some respect some shows 197 00:09:26,269 --> 00:09:21,810 that they're notable shows that their 198 00:09:30,319 --> 00:09:26,279 opinion is important so that when mr. 199 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:30,329 mrs. public looks at this Wikipedia page 200 00:09:35,389 --> 00:09:32,910 and they're there watching the person on 201 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:35,399 nova or wherever National Geographic or 202 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:38,850 a podcast or whatever they'll be able 203 00:09:46,329 --> 00:09:41,569 know that this person is reputable 204 00:09:48,740 --> 00:09:46,339 absolutely now apart from this ongoing 205 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:48,750 project which is sort of become a bit of 206 00:09:54,379 --> 00:09:51,810 a passion of yours I can tell you are 207 00:09:55,879 --> 00:09:54,389 currently undergoing a bit of treatment 208 00:09:58,519 --> 00:09:55,889 yourself and for those listeners who may 209 00:09:59,689 --> 00:09:58,529 not not realize what's Lord what's the 210 00:10:02,210 --> 00:09:59,699 process you're going through what's 211 00:10:06,019 --> 00:10:02,220 happening to you right now oh yes I have 212 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:06,029 well I guess I had breast cancer I think 213 00:10:11,050 --> 00:10:08,250 it's gone now they say it's gone but we 214 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:11,060 don't know for sure I had 20 weeks of 215 00:10:17,569 --> 00:10:14,730 chemo I have stage two breast cancer and 216 00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:17,579 I'm very public about it i'm not shy 217 00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:21,120 about it at all and um right now I'm 218 00:10:24,379 --> 00:10:22,500 going through radiation I've completely 219 00:10:27,790 --> 00:10:24,389 finished the chemo which was 16 220 00:10:31,759 --> 00:10:27,800 treatments it was quite an adventure and 221 00:10:34,129 --> 00:10:31,769 not something that I would gladly do 222 00:10:37,220 --> 00:10:34,139 again for the heck of it you know but 223 00:10:39,019 --> 00:10:37,230 you know it wasn't as bad as I had been 224 00:10:42,379 --> 00:10:39,029 you know I thought it would be 225 00:10:44,689 --> 00:10:42,389 considering you know just how bad cancer 226 00:10:46,460 --> 00:10:44,699 seems to be it was it it really wasn't 227 00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:46,470 that bad I mean it was bad but it wasn't 228 00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:49,380 that bad I don't I think for the people 229 00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:52,800 like you each year that passes the 230 00:10:56,569 --> 00:10:54,720 treatment it gets better and better and 231 00:10:58,189 --> 00:10:56,579 the side effects can be managed more 232 00:11:01,429 --> 00:10:58,199 successfully I think but you've 233 00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:01,439 certainly been up front about it to the 234 00:11:06,290 --> 00:11:03,120 extent I think you're having as much fun 235 00:11:08,170 --> 00:11:06,300 as anybody can have with this by posting 236 00:11:11,870 --> 00:11:08,180 very interesting photographs of yourself 237 00:11:14,210 --> 00:11:11,880 I think the last one that really caught 238 00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:14,220 my eye were done up is not for r2 which 239 00:11:18,650 --> 00:11:17,040 was quite stunning oh it was great and 240 00:11:22,370 --> 00:11:18,660 you know what that was so much fun it's 241 00:11:24,499 --> 00:11:22,380 my boyfriend mark Edward he had he was 242 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:24,509 here visiting me he lives about 300 243 00:11:28,610 --> 00:11:26,970 miles away so when he's when we're 244 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:28,620 together we have a lot we do have a lot 245 00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:32,250 of fun he said I'd put on I have lost my 246 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:35,040 eyebrows on my eyelashes and women just 247 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:36,569 look really different when they don't 248 00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:38,250 have eyelashes and eyebrows and I don't 249 00:11:44,689 --> 00:11:41,279 have my fingernails are are almost all 250 00:11:46,370 --> 00:11:44,699 gone to from the chemo so I they're 251 00:11:47,780 --> 00:11:46,380 growing out now but I can't really put 252 00:11:50,059 --> 00:11:47,790 on fake eyelashes or anything like that 253 00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:50,069 because i don't have fingernails so it 254 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:52,320 is really kind of weird 255 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:53,850 but anyway one day I was trying to put 256 00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:55,290 some makeup on when he was here and he 257 00:12:00,320 --> 00:11:57,360 said I said how do I look and he says 258 00:12:03,020 --> 00:12:00,330 you look like Uncle Fester so he said 259 00:12:04,820 --> 00:12:03,030 you know what why don't we take a photo 260 00:12:06,830 --> 00:12:04,830 would you be game for that and I said 261 00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:06,840 sure so we dressed me up his uncle 262 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:08,340 fester and put a light bulb in my mouth 263 00:12:14,090 --> 00:12:10,970 and that was kind of the start of it 264 00:12:16,010 --> 00:12:14,100 somebody on facebook when I put up the 265 00:12:18,350 --> 00:12:16,020 uncle fester photo said that he would 266 00:12:24,530 --> 00:12:18,360 give a hundred dollars to his local 267 00:12:28,780 --> 00:12:24,540 cancer cancer treatment center in his 268 00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,790 town in Arkansas if I dressed up as no 269 00:12:33,710 --> 00:12:31,200 say the name for meanness nosferatu 270 00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:33,720 nostri died I've never heard of them 271 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:37,920 being huh and so I waited a few days and 272 00:12:43,070 --> 00:12:40,290 we played around with it and I did we 273 00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:43,080 went into portraits down at a very 274 00:12:49,340 --> 00:12:45,120 public place that had an archway that 275 00:12:51,380 --> 00:12:49,350 kind of fit the theme and the i posted 276 00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:51,390 up on facebook and that that person 277 00:12:56,420 --> 00:12:53,700 donated two hundred and fifty dollars to 278 00:12:57,890 --> 00:12:56,430 his cancer treatment center in his town 279 00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:57,900 he thought it was so great he said i'd 280 00:13:02,030 --> 00:13:00,000 gone over the top and done it had done a 281 00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:02,040 better job and then i did one right 282 00:13:05,540 --> 00:13:04,230 after that of dr. evil and I didn't 283 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:05,550 really like the way that one came out 284 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:08,610 but you know I have I have been having 285 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:11,010 as much fun as I possibly can because I 286 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:14,910 don't plan on being bald again well I 287 00:13:18,590 --> 00:13:16,410 think that's that that's a wonderful 288 00:13:21,470 --> 00:13:18,600 attitude to have and it's one of the 289 00:13:25,730 --> 00:13:21,480 themes that comes up there's this idea 290 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:25,740 at large that too to help you get 291 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:28,170 through something like cancer or or 292 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:29,970 whatever it is if you have this great 293 00:13:33,830 --> 00:13:31,410 positive attitude that's going to help 294 00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,840 you fight the cancer and win but as we 295 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:36,240 all know having a positive attitude 296 00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:38,310 really just helps you get through the 297 00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:40,590 process more than anything else you're a 298 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:42,120 hundred percent right and I think that's 299 00:13:46,370 --> 00:13:44,370 a really good thing to raise i felt bad 300 00:13:51,470 --> 00:13:46,380 throughout the whole time that I've been 301 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:51,480 public because I felt that having a you 302 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:53,130 know if I have a really good day and I'm 303 00:13:56,570 --> 00:13:54,690 talking about it that I feel like I'm 304 00:13:59,630 --> 00:13:56,580 almost telling people who have cancer 305 00:14:00,950 --> 00:13:59,640 that are having bad days that there's 306 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:00,960 something wrong with them that they're 307 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:02,850 not thinking positively enough or 308 00:14:06,199 --> 00:14:04,610 something like that and I feel really 309 00:14:08,179 --> 00:14:06,209 self-conscious but what 310 00:14:10,730 --> 00:14:08,189 you start making posts on Facebook or 311 00:14:12,319 --> 00:14:10,740 Twitter about it and people are writing 312 00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:12,329 to me and telling me how much they enjoy 313 00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:15,360 the photos and have my attitude I feel 314 00:14:20,329 --> 00:14:17,279 and then people start telling me things 315 00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:20,339 like you're a hero and you're so this 316 00:14:24,319 --> 00:14:21,720 and you're so that I'm thinking I'm 317 00:14:26,210 --> 00:14:24,329 doing nothing I'm just you know trying 318 00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:26,220 to have a positive attitude about it it 319 00:14:31,429 --> 00:14:29,040 is a scientist it is those people behind 320 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:31,439 the scenes who are doing everything the 321 00:14:36,439 --> 00:14:34,050 fact that I I didn't have any nausea the 322 00:14:40,850 --> 00:14:36,449 whole time in fact I gained weight and 323 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:40,860 too much weight but I mean it's it's 324 00:14:45,819 --> 00:14:43,170 science that did it for me and then the 325 00:14:48,350 --> 00:14:45,829 people who are working at the clinic and 326 00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:48,360 all those people with their positive 327 00:14:51,650 --> 00:14:49,740 attitudes that's what's getting me 328 00:14:54,559 --> 00:14:51,660 through to and my friends oh my gosh 329 00:14:55,879 --> 00:14:54,569 everybody's been so wonderful so you 330 00:14:57,829 --> 00:14:55,889 know and I didn't really want to post if 331 00:15:00,530 --> 00:14:57,839 I had a kind of a bad day because I 332 00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:00,540 didn't want to turn anybody away make 333 00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,809 them think that oh I should never have a 334 00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:05,519 key mode because you know she's gonna 335 00:15:09,769 --> 00:15:07,230 lose her fingernails or you're gonna do 336 00:15:11,749 --> 00:15:09,779 this and and it's very very rare that 337 00:15:14,660 --> 00:15:11,759 somebody loses their fingernails as much 338 00:15:18,289 --> 00:15:14,670 as I have that's very rare so I just 339 00:15:19,609 --> 00:15:18,299 happen to be an exception so don't freak 340 00:15:20,749 --> 00:15:19,619 out if you think you're gonna have to 341 00:15:21,889 --> 00:15:20,759 have chemo and you're going to think 342 00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:21,899 you're gonna lose your fingernails it's 343 00:15:27,289 --> 00:15:25,920 really really unusual ok so I mean 344 00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:27,299 really I haven't done much of anything 345 00:15:32,689 --> 00:15:30,240 except just you know play it for all 346 00:15:34,939 --> 00:15:32,699 it's worth and but you're absolutely 347 00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,949 right Richard having a positive attitude 348 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:36,720 will get you through the treatment I 349 00:15:42,530 --> 00:15:39,240 learned over and over and over that when 350 00:15:45,079 --> 00:15:42,540 you are that if you're going through 351 00:15:47,389 --> 00:15:45,089 chemo chemo still hard stuff radiations 352 00:15:49,429 --> 00:15:47,399 nothing if you're going through chemo 353 00:15:51,379 --> 00:15:49,439 you need to go to work you need to get 354 00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:51,389 up you need to go for walks you need to 355 00:15:55,249 --> 00:15:53,100 wash your dishes you need to clean your 356 00:15:57,199 --> 00:15:55,259 house you need to pet your cat you need 357 00:15:59,539 --> 00:15:57,209 to go out with friends go to the movies 358 00:16:01,579 --> 00:15:59,549 you need to be active because when 359 00:16:03,230 --> 00:16:01,589 you're when you win your life that you 360 00:16:05,329 --> 00:16:03,240 hang out with people who are fun and you 361 00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,339 can laugh and that kind of thing you 362 00:16:09,499 --> 00:16:06,720 will get through the chemo so much 363 00:16:11,629 --> 00:16:09,509 easier it's when you come home and you 364 00:16:13,989 --> 00:16:11,639 sit on the couch and you watch TV and 365 00:16:16,970 --> 00:16:13,999 you you start to get a little depressed 366 00:16:18,499 --> 00:16:16,980 it's it's not good for you they 367 00:16:20,660 --> 00:16:18,509 explained it to me saying that your body 368 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:20,670 creates a steroid a natural 369 00:16:25,010 --> 00:16:23,370 steroid when you're active and the 370 00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:25,020 steroids really help you get through the 371 00:16:30,050 --> 00:16:27,660 process that kind of natural thing and 372 00:16:32,270 --> 00:16:30,060 so you know anybody who's listening 373 00:16:34,850 --> 00:16:32,280 who's going to be going through this 374 00:16:36,980 --> 00:16:34,860 process just really do everything you 375 00:16:38,930 --> 00:16:36,990 can to get up and keep active and be 376 00:16:41,330 --> 00:16:38,940 with hang out with people that are fun I 377 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:41,340 think that's just wonderful advice and 378 00:16:47,330 --> 00:16:43,710 that coupled with the fact that every 379 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:47,340 year scientific advancements in medicine 380 00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:50,970 make it better and easier for people 381 00:16:56,450 --> 00:16:52,980 like yourself I think they should give 382 00:17:00,590 --> 00:16:56,460 everybody heart I think mm-hmm and stage 383 00:17:02,540 --> 00:17:00,600 two stage three stage four they they can 384 00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:02,550 fix almost anything these days you guys 385 00:17:07,100 --> 00:17:05,160 really it's not cancer is not the 386 00:17:09,860 --> 00:17:07,110 disease that that I was raised to 387 00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:09,870 believe what was so horrible my father 388 00:17:15,620 --> 00:17:11,640 died of cancer not the same kind of 389 00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:15,630 thing but when he died we weren't even 390 00:17:20,660 --> 00:17:17,310 allowed to mention the word and he died 391 00:17:23,870 --> 00:17:20,670 in 89 1989 and we couldn't put in the 392 00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:23,880 obituaries it was a whispered word you 393 00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:26,880 did not know it was horrible is it was 394 00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:29,190 like a very very bad thing to say so 395 00:17:34,820 --> 00:17:31,200 nowadays it's like hey you know I've got 396 00:17:38,060 --> 00:17:34,830 breast cancer I fell totally totally 397 00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:38,070 changed well that that's that's 398 00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:40,620 absolutely a wonderful attitude to have 399 00:17:45,220 --> 00:17:43,380 now Susan how can people getting back to 400 00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:45,230 our original topic how can people 401 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:48,120 continue to help out the guerrilla 402 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:51,210 skepticism project oh oh my gosh Richard 403 00:17:56,660 --> 00:17:53,250 I'm so glad you asked if we really need 404 00:18:01,930 --> 00:17:56,670 people to help us out are you can write 405 00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:01,940 to us at GS o w team @ gmail.com and 406 00:18:07,630 --> 00:18:04,110 what we're going to do is we're going to 407 00:18:10,250 --> 00:18:07,640 ask you to open a Wikipedia account and 408 00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:10,260 let me know where you heard about us and 409 00:18:16,010 --> 00:18:14,310 to let me know what language you want to 410 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:16,020 edit in and then we'll put you through 411 00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:17,730 training you'll have to go to our forum 412 00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:19,110 which will give you the link to because 413 00:18:23,180 --> 00:18:22,020 it's a super secret forum and then 414 00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:23,190 you'll be able to come in there and 415 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:26,400 we'll start you out with process process 416 00:18:31,610 --> 00:18:29,010 you through the training and it's a lot 417 00:18:32,930 --> 00:18:31,620 of fun it's a community and you'll have 418 00:18:33,769 --> 00:18:32,940 a really great time and you'll learn how 419 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:33,779 to change the 420 00:18:38,810 --> 00:18:36,330 old one Wikipedia page at a time it 421 00:18:41,239 --> 00:18:38,820 sounds good well Susan I'm so pleased 422 00:18:43,609 --> 00:18:41,249 that you're on the job as it were you're 423 00:18:44,989 --> 00:18:43,619 on the case you're keeping at it despite 424 00:18:46,969 --> 00:18:44,999 everything that you've been going 425 00:18:48,830 --> 00:18:46,979 through I look forward to seeing more 426 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:48,840 wacky pictures of you until your hair 427 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:51,690 grows back and maybe when it starts to 428 00:18:55,609 --> 00:18:53,129 grow back you can even have some more 429 00:18:57,739 --> 00:18:55,619 fun with it I'm not sure oh I don't know 430 00:18:59,539 --> 00:18:57,749 i'll be a normal human being back then 431 00:19:02,509 --> 00:18:59,549 but it sure really has been kind of fun 432 00:19:04,039 --> 00:19:02,519 you know seriously you guys I think 433 00:19:05,810 --> 00:19:04,049 every woman should shave her head at 434 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:05,820 some point in her life and not because 435 00:19:12,829 --> 00:19:08,690 she has cancer but I think it's a really 436 00:19:14,599 --> 00:19:12,839 interesting social experiment and you 437 00:19:18,649 --> 00:19:14,609 really makes you think about what is 438 00:19:20,389 --> 00:19:18,659 beauty and what really is you know how 439 00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:20,399 you feel about yourself and these kinds 440 00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,830 of things I it's been a life-changing 441 00:19:27,459 --> 00:19:25,200 experience trust me not just having 442 00:19:29,539 --> 00:19:27,469 cancer but you know losing your hair is 443 00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:29,549 something else let me tell you but I 444 00:19:32,869 --> 00:19:31,320 think most women should do it just some 445 00:19:37,489 --> 00:19:32,879 time but their life just I think it 446 00:19:40,519 --> 00:19:37,499 would be something that they will look 447 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:40,529 back on with fond memories no there we 448 00:19:44,029 --> 00:19:42,330 go if we see lots of women in the street 449 00:19:48,259 --> 00:19:44,039 with bald heads next week we'll know who 450 00:19:50,299 --> 00:19:48,269 to blame okay that's fine Susan Kovac 451 00:20:05,610 --> 00:19:50,309 with that great attitude thank you very 452 00:20:11,380 --> 00:20:09,100 it never ends a friend starts talking 453 00:20:12,820 --> 00:20:11,390 about his new Reiki Master and someone 454 00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:12,830 else just posted about another 455 00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:15,710 all-natural cancer cure that they don't 456 00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:18,080 want you to know about as skeptics we 457 00:20:21,970 --> 00:20:19,520 spend a lot of time trying to educate 458 00:20:23,670 --> 00:20:21,980 and protect those around us but there is 459 00:20:26,530 --> 00:20:23,680 a way that you can reach millions 460 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:26,540 guerrilla skepticism on Wikipedia is a 461 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:28,610 group working to keep the best skeptical 462 00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:30,250 information at everyone's fingertips 463 00:20:37,660 --> 00:20:33,760 join us we need writers editors 464 00:20:40,030 --> 00:20:37,670 translators we need you you join us or 465 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:40,040 find out more send a facebook friend 466 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:43,370 request to Susan Berbick that's ger be 467 00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:54,110 hi this is Lauren Cochrane president of 468 00:20:58,100 --> 00:20:56,310 Canberra skeptics our next meetup will 469 00:21:01,010 --> 00:20:58,110 be our annual social function on the 470 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:01,020 19th of January 1pm in the barbecue area 471 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:03,710 behind Questacon this event is BYO 472 00:21:07,550 --> 00:21:06,210 following the BBQ Questacon will be 473 00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:07,560 holding a free screening of the 474 00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,080 documentary flock of dodos produced by 475 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:12,480 filmmaker and evolutionary ecologist dr. 476 00:21:17,030 --> 00:21:14,970 Randy Olson this documentary takes a 477 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:17,040 look at the evolution versus intelligent 478 00:21:21,260 --> 00:21:19,530 design controversy for more information 479 00:21:23,450 --> 00:21:21,270 about this and other Canberra skeptics 480 00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:23,460 events look for us on facebook twitter 481 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:26,640 meetup or visit canberra skeptics or gay 482 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:29,730 you barcamp canberra is back again for 483 00:21:34,670 --> 00:21:32,490 2014 we welcome anyone interested in 484 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:34,680 science communication scepticism maker 485 00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,110 or hacker culture social innovation gulf 486 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:39,600 2 point 0 or the web to come along be 487 00:21:44,030 --> 00:21:41,850 ready to participate anyone can give a 488 00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:44,040 talk during the 20-minute sessions this 489 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:46,140 year barcamp canberra will be held at 490 00:21:50,990 --> 00:21:47,850 the Gungan library on the fifteenth of 491 00:22:03,409 --> 00:21:51,000 march as always entry is free for more 492 00:22:08,430 --> 00:22:06,269 welcome to a weakened science from ra oz 493 00:22:10,259 --> 00:22:08,440 bringing you the science you need to 494 00:22:13,230 --> 00:22:10,269 know have you ever wondered if there's 495 00:22:15,090 --> 00:22:13,240 life out there but believe it or not 496 00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:15,100 there's actually an equation to work out 497 00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:17,470 the probability of extraterrestrial life 498 00:22:29,970 --> 00:22:28,510 and it's called the Drake Equation so 499 00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:29,980 there's this astronomer named Frank 500 00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:33,070 Drake be back in 1959 started searching 501 00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:35,200 the universe for signals which may 502 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:37,240 indicate the presence of intelligent 503 00:22:41,549 --> 00:22:39,850 life then in nineteen sixty one who was 504 00:22:43,950 --> 00:22:41,559 helping organize a conference and 505 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:43,960 started thinking about all the factors 506 00:22:47,730 --> 00:22:45,610 which would need to be considered when 507 00:22:50,340 --> 00:22:47,740 trying to predict where the intelligent 508 00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:50,350 life was out there what he came up with 509 00:22:55,649 --> 00:22:52,840 is this equation which multiplies 510 00:22:57,210 --> 00:22:55,659 together the race of star formation the 511 00:22:59,639 --> 00:22:57,220 fraction of those stars which have 512 00:23:02,100 --> 00:22:59,649 planets how many of those planets that 513 00:23:03,870 --> 00:23:02,110 could support life the fraction of 514 00:23:06,060 --> 00:23:03,880 planets which could support life that 515 00:23:07,980 --> 00:23:06,070 actually develop life at some points the 516 00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:07,990 fraction of civilizations that develop a 517 00:23:11,879 --> 00:23:09,940 technology that releases detectable 518 00:23:13,850 --> 00:23:11,889 signs of their existence into space and 519 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:13,860 the length of time for which such 520 00:23:20,909 --> 00:23:16,450 civilizations release detectable signals 521 00:23:22,980 --> 00:23:20,919 into space now obviously some of those 522 00:23:26,129 --> 00:23:22,990 factors are measurable or can be 523 00:23:28,769 --> 00:23:26,139 calculated but some we just don't know I 524 00:23:30,419 --> 00:23:28,779 mean how do you know how many planets 525 00:23:32,610 --> 00:23:30,429 with life go on to develop a 526 00:23:34,620 --> 00:23:32,620 civilization or how many of those 527 00:23:36,810 --> 00:23:34,630 develop technology which releases 528 00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:36,820 detectable signals because of these 529 00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:38,950 limitations the Drake Equation isn't 530 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:41,110 really used to predict the abundance of 531 00:23:45,330 --> 00:23:43,210 life out there but it is an interesting 532 00:23:47,009 --> 00:23:45,340 equation to just contemplate when 533 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:47,019 thinking about life in the universe and 534 00:23:52,019 --> 00:23:49,210 what is required for us to find it and 535 00:23:54,860 --> 00:23:52,029 now for fast facts about the search for 536 00:23:59,700 --> 00:23:58,139 the Voyager space probes carry records 537 00:24:02,220 --> 00:23:59,710 which contain information about Earth 538 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:02,230 and humans in case it meets other life 539 00:24:06,539 --> 00:24:04,450 forms part of the Curiosity rover 540 00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:06,549 mission is to search for water on Mars 541 00:24:11,009 --> 00:24:08,590 which could support the presence of life 542 00:24:12,690 --> 00:24:11,019 the zone surrounding a star which gives 543 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:12,700 planet fit conditions which are just 544 00:24:17,490 --> 00:24:15,129 right for life is called the Goldilocks 545 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:17,500 zone and one problem of searching for 546 00:24:21,539 --> 00:24:19,450 life in the universe is that life may 547 00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:21,549 exist in a form we don't recognize as 548 00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:23,710 being alive or in places we don't 549 00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:26,289 realize can even support life that's it 550 00:24:30,180 --> 00:24:28,600 for this week in science if you want to 551 00:24:31,950 --> 00:24:30,190 find out more about the search for life 552 00:24:36,749 --> 00:24:31,960 on other planets check out our website 553 00:24:40,830 --> 00:24:36,759 are I aus org a you where we have some 554 00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:40,840 links follow us on twitter at RI aus and 555 00:24:45,149 --> 00:24:43,809 like us on facebook i'm ben lewis and 556 00:24:56,030 --> 00:24:45,159 we'll catch you right back here next 557 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:04,180 in a world where the truth is a matter 558 00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:12,120 we're messages are a scene for beyond 559 00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:15,390 and reason is sidelined for magical 560 00:25:18,169 --> 00:25:23,759 only three men stand between the truth 561 00:25:29,229 --> 00:25:27,519 what date is it 787 thing this is 562 00:25:30,879 --> 00:25:29,239 impressive if these are system present 563 00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:30,889 they're not their photographs of Chinese 564 00:25:36,009 --> 00:25:33,769 anthem it's not we are not worried sick 565 00:25:37,659 --> 00:25:36,019 is a good God we're fully don't discuss 566 00:25:39,549 --> 00:25:37,669 cryptozoology on the show very often 567 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:39,559 because we don't know anything about how 568 00:25:43,749 --> 00:25:42,049 the truth the price gets lower and lower 569 00:25:47,340 --> 00:25:43,759 and lower and then he hits a ceiling 570 00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:49,779 skeptic to the cave and Moses has gifted 571 00:26:01,200 --> 00:25:52,609 society find us on iTunes or you know 572 00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:01,210 don't here's main art spooky action at 573 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:07,370 well of course the big awards are being 574 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:09,330 announced here in Simon you missed out 575 00:26:13,490 --> 00:26:11,130 on the bent spoon yet again you've never 576 00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:13,500 won at once now haven't but I know a lot 577 00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:15,360 of people who are really hanging out for 578 00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:18,510 it to go to Sarah Laurie from the war 579 00:26:23,210 --> 00:26:21,360 bruh foundation she's a really worthy 580 00:26:25,549 --> 00:26:23,220 recipient but wasn't to get it this year 581 00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:25,559 now now of course a look let's start 582 00:26:28,519 --> 00:26:27,120 backwards you just when you finished you 583 00:26:30,620 --> 00:26:28,529 said you're in a band you're going to 584 00:26:32,299 --> 00:26:30,630 donate some money to neglected cancers 585 00:26:33,769 --> 00:26:32,309 and you mentioned pancreatic cancers now 586 00:26:35,180 --> 00:26:33,779 what other ones would be in that in that 587 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:35,190 area that people don't think as much 588 00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:36,690 because that they're not as generally 589 00:26:41,060 --> 00:26:38,940 effective look look there are a lot in 590 00:26:42,620 --> 00:26:41,070 fact if you add up all of the cancers 591 00:26:44,990 --> 00:26:42,630 that probably most people have never 592 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:45,000 heard of collectively they would get 593 00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:47,250 certainly into the top five there are a 594 00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:49,260 lot of people who sort of will will have 595 00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:52,110 a you know a cancer of the eye or you 596 00:26:55,519 --> 00:26:54,000 know some sort of some part of the body 597 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:55,529 that you know you haven't got a big 598 00:27:00,169 --> 00:26:57,090 group of people who are collecting money 599 00:27:01,639 --> 00:27:00,179 for it and often they're not a lot of 600 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:01,649 people suffering from that particular 601 00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:03,529 one but if you put them all together 602 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:07,440 they are together very very neglected I 603 00:27:10,970 --> 00:27:09,210 think it's a very interesting one to be 604 00:27:12,620 --> 00:27:10,980 raising money born and it's good it also 605 00:27:14,029 --> 00:27:12,630 a bit difficult to because it's a group 606 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:14,039 you can't mention one everyone like 607 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:15,450 pulls at the heartstrings straight away 608 00:27:19,519 --> 00:27:17,250 that's a problem of this yet it is here 609 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:19,529 I mean some of the childhood cancers 610 00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:21,690 fall into that category 611 00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:23,940 you know the pancreatic cancer which are 612 00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:25,769 named tonight is actually a very 613 00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:27,600 prevalent cancer and one of the most 614 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:30,000 rapidly fatal and which we have very 615 00:27:35,389 --> 00:27:32,730 very little answer for so that that is 616 00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:35,399 one that's you know I think affects a 617 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:37,200 lot of people but very few people have 618 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:39,090 heard of it bowel cancer is quite 619 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:41,730 neglected because unlike a lot of the 620 00:27:46,249 --> 00:27:44,250 other cancers if you've got you know if 621 00:27:48,019 --> 00:27:46,259 a colostomy bag and you're a celebrity 622 00:27:49,820 --> 00:27:48,029 or something you're probably not likely 623 00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:49,830 to go out and saying you know look I've 624 00:27:55,639 --> 00:27:51,600 got this is the problem i suffer from 625 00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:55,649 it's it's a messy unfortunate cancer but 626 00:27:59,299 --> 00:27:57,049 it's one what we can do a lot about 627 00:28:00,860 --> 00:27:59,309 we'll look at goes it out tell everyone 628 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:00,870 what you got your award tonight and what 629 00:28:06,249 --> 00:28:02,250 do you think pushed you over the edge to 630 00:28:08,539 --> 00:28:06,259 get it tonight look I've no idea but I 631 00:28:12,110 --> 00:28:08,549 sometimes have to pinch myself at work 632 00:28:14,659 --> 00:28:12,120 you know to think that I go to work get 633 00:28:17,419 --> 00:28:14,669 paid as professor of Public Health to be 634 00:28:20,060 --> 00:28:17,429 able to look into some of this lunacy 635 00:28:22,730 --> 00:28:20,070 that's out there in public health we we 636 00:28:24,019 --> 00:28:22,740 we try to sort of get people concerned 637 00:28:25,270 --> 00:28:24,029 about things that they should be 638 00:28:30,970 --> 00:28:25,280 concerned about 639 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:30,980 first got into this area about 15 years 640 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:33,290 ago with mobile telephone towers which 641 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:34,850 everyone a lot of not everyone a lot of 642 00:28:39,910 --> 00:28:36,410 people were saying all they could cause 643 00:28:43,060 --> 00:28:39,920 all sorts of scary things that turned 644 00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:43,070 out not to be true but with wind 645 00:28:47,140 --> 00:28:45,350 turbines you know this is this started 646 00:28:49,630 --> 00:28:47,150 happening about five or six years ago 647 00:28:51,580 --> 00:28:49,640 all the scare stuff about it and the 648 00:28:53,620 --> 00:28:51,590 more and more I looked into it the less 649 00:28:55,450 --> 00:28:53,630 and less I could see that there was any 650 00:28:59,140 --> 00:28:55,460 substance to it and so I've been doing 651 00:29:00,910 --> 00:28:59,150 my best to try and really talk talk 652 00:29:03,250 --> 00:29:00,920 about this issue about the naseebo 653 00:29:05,140 --> 00:29:03,260 effect we've all heard of the placebo 654 00:29:06,550 --> 00:29:05,150 effect which is where you know someone 655 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:06,560 says look take this it'll be good for 656 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:08,810 you naseebo fix the opposite like all 657 00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:11,810 this might harm you I'm telling you to 658 00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,520 be you know be on your on your guard 659 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:15,440 because this might harm you and I think 660 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:17,690 that's what's operational here now as 661 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:19,370 someone who's involved in public he'll 662 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:21,410 do you think and policy do you think 663 00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:24,050 there's any place for balancing public 664 00:29:27,730 --> 00:29:26,240 health and libertarian concerns or it 665 00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:27,740 shouldn't those should be public help 666 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:31,310 all the way no look I'm most well-known 667 00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:33,530 from the work that I do in in tobacco 668 00:29:37,780 --> 00:29:36,710 control but I probably surprised you've 669 00:29:40,660 --> 00:29:37,790 got a lot of people listening to this 670 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:40,670 see if I say that you have a cigarette 671 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:42,170 in your hand right now I know every 672 00:29:46,510 --> 00:29:44,330 surprised about a great but for example 673 00:29:48,490 --> 00:29:46,520 I was on the the Senate of the 674 00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:48,500 University of Sydney for for two terms 675 00:29:53,380 --> 00:29:50,480 and I was one of the people who actually 676 00:29:54,930 --> 00:29:53,390 opposed the campus going totally 677 00:29:56,790 --> 00:29:54,940 smoke-free 678 00:29:59,010 --> 00:29:56,800 and now I've got no problem about it 679 00:30:01,020 --> 00:29:59,020 going smoke-free indoors and it has been 680 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:01,030 for many years but but outdoors the 681 00:30:06,510 --> 00:30:03,490 evidence is actually very very poor that 682 00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:06,520 someone's smoking say on an oval or in a 683 00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:07,960 boulevard is actually going to be 684 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:09,340 harmful to other people the evidence 685 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:12,010 isn't there and so I I sort of said 686 00:30:17,820 --> 00:30:14,770 we'll hang on a second it had been nice 687 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:17,830 you know perhaps if it was that evidence 688 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:20,170 but there isn't so we really can't push 689 00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:22,210 that boundary and a few people shook 690 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:23,440 their heads and said well you know we 691 00:30:26,970 --> 00:30:24,730 could have got this through if you'd 692 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:26,980 supported it but as it as it turns out 693 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:29,290 that now the campus is just that all 694 00:30:32,610 --> 00:30:31,570 smoke free except for a few smoking 695 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:32,620 areas and I think that's a good 696 00:30:37,380 --> 00:30:35,470 compromise what about the everyone goes 697 00:30:38,610 --> 00:30:37,390 on about you know if alcohol was good to 698 00:30:40,650 --> 00:30:38,620 become something new today it would 699 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:40,660 never get past that sort of thing how 700 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:42,010 many times you heard that kind of thing 701 00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:46,530 said yeah look at our alcohol is a huge 702 00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:50,380 public health problem but unlike tobacco 703 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:51,240 where 704 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:53,370 I bless them and cotton socks on us I 705 00:30:56,810 --> 00:30:55,170 decided to specialize in that area 706 00:30:59,720 --> 00:30:56,820 because there's really nothing good to 707 00:31:02,210 --> 00:30:59,730 be said about tobacco alcohol does 708 00:31:04,220 --> 00:31:02,220 brings tobacco got any beneficial things 709 00:31:06,110 --> 00:31:04,230 as relaxing people as a smoke or is it 710 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:06,120 completely over times better but it 711 00:31:10,730 --> 00:31:08,010 doesn't have a monopoly on that you know 712 00:31:12,380 --> 00:31:10,740 I mean it you know cup of tea the idea 713 00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:12,390 that you know or will you it would be a 714 00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:13,980 good idea to if you want to relax to 715 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:15,990 take up smoking is just a ridiculous you 716 00:31:19,010 --> 00:31:17,010 know because there's so many other ways 717 00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:19,020 that you can relax but without with 718 00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:22,110 alcohol I'm and I think we see you know 719 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:24,240 meant most people who do drink alcohol 720 00:31:28,850 --> 00:31:26,730 don't get into any trouble with it the 721 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:28,860 either themselves and they don't harm 722 00:31:32,390 --> 00:31:30,570 society either they drink responsibly 723 00:31:34,490 --> 00:31:32,400 and I think that's a very important 724 00:31:36,169 --> 00:31:34,500 message and now what do you think is the 725 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:36,179 next big challenge then I mean obviously 726 00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:37,770 I can see yourselves you're going to 727 00:31:40,490 --> 00:31:39,240 strap this off to a wind turbine and 728 00:31:42,740 --> 00:31:40,500 gets spun around to prove they are 729 00:31:44,419 --> 00:31:42,750 completely safe I look the biggest 730 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:44,429 challenge I think that we face in public 731 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:48,450 health is the challenge of convincing 732 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:51,090 the world that they really need to take 733 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:54,090 global warming very very seriously as 734 00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:56,130 depressed as a lot of people are about 735 00:32:01,100 --> 00:31:58,410 the state of this country is a debate 736 00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:01,110 about this at the moment and the erosion 737 00:32:08,990 --> 00:32:07,200 of I guess the the credibility of the 738 00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:09,000 sort of the whole science because of the 739 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:10,440 spin doctoring and the media 740 00:32:14,180 --> 00:32:12,330 concentration which has been sort of 741 00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,190 ganging up against it I think is a 742 00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:16,320 really really big challenge for all of 743 00:32:20,030 --> 00:32:18,000 us who are working in science to turn 744 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:20,040 and really turn that around you think 745 00:32:22,820 --> 00:32:21,330 you've got the same problems with the 746 00:32:25,130 --> 00:32:22,830 anti-vaccination movement where you have 747 00:32:27,470 --> 00:32:25,140 someone who has credentials and usually 748 00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:27,480 up against them is not so much yeah 749 00:32:32,030 --> 00:32:30,059 that's right I mean you know it's been 750 00:32:33,950 --> 00:32:32,040 said many times that I'll say it again 751 00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:33,960 as worth saying that if you went along 752 00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:37,470 to a doctor and the doctor said do it 753 00:32:41,419 --> 00:32:39,150 along to 99 doctors and they said yes 754 00:32:43,010 --> 00:32:41,429 you do have a cancer you need to you 755 00:32:45,710 --> 00:32:43,020 know we need to operate on this you went 756 00:32:46,910 --> 00:32:45,720 along to one is it well no you don't you 757 00:32:48,890 --> 00:32:46,920 know what sort of person would sort of 758 00:32:50,810 --> 00:32:48,900 go with the one you know and that's the 759 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:50,820 situation we have with global warming 760 00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:53,010 climate change that we have the 761 00:32:57,650 --> 00:32:55,200 overwhelming proportion of scientists 762 00:32:58,910 --> 00:32:57,660 who say that this is a big problem and 763 00:33:00,830 --> 00:32:58,920 we need to do something about it 764 00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,840 congratulations on your would imagine a 765 00:33:03,860 --> 00:33:02,640 bar tab goes with this does it or you 766 00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:03,870 know something that's public health 767 00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:06,720 friendly well I don't know I haven't had 768 00:33:10,909 --> 00:33:08,340 that pleasure yet but I'm looking 769 00:33:12,380 --> 00:33:10,919 forward to look at congratulations once 770 00:33:15,290 --> 00:33:12,390 again and thank you for your work thanks 771 00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:15,300 a lot I've just been wandering aimlessly 772 00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:18,480 through the the vaults and areas and car 773 00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:20,460 parks of the anu which is what i'll 774 00:33:23,270 --> 00:33:21,809 usually like to do at this time on 775 00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:23,280 sunday anyway but this time I've been 776 00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:24,960 doing it with a mission who we got here 777 00:33:29,090 --> 00:33:27,000 hi I'm Chris Kennedy I'm the director of 778 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:29,100 the CSIRO Discovery Center and you've 779 00:33:32,330 --> 00:33:30,450 got a great discovery center there we've 780 00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:32,340 been playing in it all weekend they're 781 00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:34,110 very good very hands-on very fun yeah 782 00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:35,580 and it's really difficult to break as 783 00:33:39,919 --> 00:33:38,460 well it's childproof no nothing is 784 00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:39,929 childproof of a child can work out how 785 00:33:43,580 --> 00:33:42,030 to break something they will do it and 786 00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:43,590 now we're here in the area the way the 787 00:33:47,510 --> 00:33:45,480 kids aren't normally allowed and we're 788 00:33:50,180 --> 00:33:47,520 in front of this beautiful mural that 789 00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,190 dates back to the early 60s and it's 790 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:52,320 about science and the history of it 791 00:33:56,150 --> 00:33:54,210 please explain in this beautiful mural 792 00:33:58,790 --> 00:33:56,160 that not many people get to see yeah so 793 00:34:00,560 --> 00:33:58,800 we're in the foyer of CSIRO land 794 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:00,570 water laboratory which was built in 795 00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:02,610 nineteen sixty three and the wall that 796 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:05,430 we're standing in front of went up first 797 00:34:13,610 --> 00:34:10,770 it's about a 66 x 2 meter wall and yeah 798 00:34:15,740 --> 00:34:13,620 so that while this artist that was 799 00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:15,750 commissioned to work on it worked across 800 00:34:19,580 --> 00:34:17,940 the year they built the laboratory 801 00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:19,590 around him so these great photos of him 802 00:34:23,419 --> 00:34:21,120 you know when his raincoat or in the 803 00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:23,429 Canberra free freezing cold in winter in 804 00:34:29,870 --> 00:34:27,510 Canberra in 1963 this muir it's a mural 805 00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,880 it's called the land research mural and 806 00:34:34,910 --> 00:34:31,440 it was commissioned by ian clooney's 807 00:34:36,350 --> 00:34:34,920 ross to communicate the kind of work 808 00:34:40,430 --> 00:34:36,360 that was going to be done out of this 809 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:40,440 laboratory and these are the laboratory 810 00:34:45,950 --> 00:34:43,170 in 1963 although it's changed purpose 811 00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,960 over the years was looking at some 812 00:34:50,180 --> 00:34:47,760 finding production productive 813 00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,190 agricultural land in Australia in that 814 00:34:55,490 --> 00:34:52,320 kind of post-war years populations 815 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:55,500 rapidly growing how are we going to feed 816 00:34:59,210 --> 00:34:56,970 these people where are we going to move 817 00:35:02,870 --> 00:34:59,220 them to so these guys did the very first 818 00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:02,880 old river feasibility studies etc opened 819 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:04,560 up a lot of that kind of you know back 820 00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:06,890 of Bourke literally back of Bourke land 821 00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:10,910 and so the artist is Robert in pen and 822 00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:14,220 he became a lot more famous afterwards 823 00:35:19,850 --> 00:35:16,710 at the I mean he's still alive he's in 824 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:19,860 his eighties he does children's books he 825 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:23,490 died Peter Pan came out this year and he 826 00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:26,010 designed the Northern Territory flag he 827 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:28,590 and some chums from sorrow at that time 828 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:30,450 started the Australian Conservation 829 00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:34,050 Foundation but as you can see i'm sorry 830 00:35:38,780 --> 00:35:36,660 view her listeners a beautiful 831 00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:38,790 illustrator so this is a watercolor 832 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:41,190 mural and he actually came back last 833 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:48,740 crumbling bits of the mural those yolks 834 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:50,130 now was this originally designed to be 835 00:35:53,810 --> 00:35:52,290 outdoors it was an outdoor mural or not 836 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:53,820 and it was always meant for the foyer 837 00:35:57,470 --> 00:35:55,650 and that's why the color has been so 838 00:35:59,390 --> 00:35:57,480 well preserved over the years a very 839 00:36:03,380 --> 00:35:59,400 vibrant kind of blues and reds and 840 00:36:07,010 --> 00:36:03,390 oranges throughout and so in this kind 841 00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:07,020 of swirling pattern he has he's telling 842 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:09,900 the story of the evolution of us of 843 00:36:14,740 --> 00:36:11,930 scientific thought of agri 844 00:36:18,850 --> 00:36:14,750 cultural thought so what we have over 845 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:18,860 here is kind of the history of evolution 846 00:36:23,950 --> 00:36:22,010 of botany the evolution of the species 847 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:23,960 there's a trilobite and we're going up 848 00:36:30,810 --> 00:36:27,010 to man and then his agricultural 849 00:36:33,550 --> 00:36:30,820 productivity from you know very early 850 00:36:36,010 --> 00:36:33,560 kind of beginning of settlement farming 851 00:36:39,220 --> 00:36:36,020 through to contemporary farming there's 852 00:36:41,830 --> 00:36:39,230 crop rotation yeah and also very 853 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:41,840 interestingly as we kind of segue 854 00:36:48,550 --> 00:36:44,210 through the development of the farm here 855 00:36:49,780 --> 00:36:48,560 in 1963 is his computer he's so what we 856 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:49,790 were looking at is really just a whole 857 00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:53,210 bunch of wires in a grid but this is his 858 00:36:57,100 --> 00:36:55,190 idea of that the future of farming is 859 00:36:59,710 --> 00:36:57,110 the computer so he was very uh you know 860 00:37:01,630 --> 00:36:59,720 aware of what was going on in 1963 it's 861 00:37:04,570 --> 00:37:01,640 also a bit fascist because you'll notice 862 00:37:08,050 --> 00:37:04,580 them he has this very idealized man at 863 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:08,060 the end and and the entire purpose of 864 00:37:14,530 --> 00:37:11,810 his mural is population sustainability 865 00:37:16,780 --> 00:37:14,540 that's the question oh okay I don't see 866 00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:16,790 a lot of indigenous population reflected 867 00:37:21,460 --> 00:37:18,560 in the mural either no not particularly 868 00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:21,470 but what's fought for us this weekend 869 00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:25,340 it's the 24th of November now so 50 870 00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:28,880 years and one day ago Robert incan was 871 00:37:33,340 --> 00:37:31,310 working on this mural he was painting 872 00:37:35,860 --> 00:37:33,350 this section that looks at um history of 873 00:37:38,590 --> 00:37:35,870 mankind he just painted the atomic bomb 874 00:37:40,030 --> 00:37:38,600 and the skull and someone came running 875 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:40,040 up from Bruce College across the road 876 00:37:43,330 --> 00:37:41,930 where he had been staying to tell him 877 00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:43,340 that President Kennedy had been 878 00:37:48,430 --> 00:37:46,310 assassinated so mr. Inkpen painted a 879 00:37:50,770 --> 00:37:48,440 black border around the American flag he 880 00:37:54,850 --> 00:37:50,780 drew the president's car and then they 881 00:37:56,290 --> 00:37:54,860 went to the pub Wow and there it is I 882 00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,300 was because you mentioned it earlier 883 00:38:00,610 --> 00:37:58,400 it's just in there as a little snippet 884 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:00,620 in history it starts as gorgeous its 885 00:38:05,890 --> 00:38:03,410 tear tingling and he's been back and 886 00:38:08,260 --> 00:38:05,900 told me the story personally I it's very 887 00:38:11,140 --> 00:38:08,270 exciting an exciting piece of artwork 888 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:11,150 that no one gets to say very iconic and 889 00:38:14,830 --> 00:38:13,610 important I think Richard Saunders is 890 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:14,840 just you as well having a look at it 891 00:38:18,070 --> 00:38:15,890 there this is the first time you've seen 892 00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:18,080 this Richard ESO heard about this but 893 00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,730 it's marvelous to have a look at it 894 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:21,680 colors are the details and the colors 895 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:23,690 are so vivid aren't they and the more 896 00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:25,130 you look at it the more there is to see 897 00:38:31,390 --> 00:38:27,920 now what is it about 34 meters across by 898 00:38:33,070 --> 00:38:31,400 maybe a meter and a half up so it's not 899 00:38:35,170 --> 00:38:33,080 a small piece of work but it's so 900 00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:35,180 complicated I think you could study this 901 00:38:38,859 --> 00:38:37,520 for hours yeah I think you'd have to get 902 00:38:40,510 --> 00:38:38,869 a shot of this to put up online so 903 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:40,520 people can have it have at least a bit 904 00:38:43,930 --> 00:38:41,690 of an idea what we're talking about here 905 00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:43,940 visually under the ocean look at that if 906 00:38:47,260 --> 00:38:45,440 we look down it's all gone blue and 907 00:38:49,180 --> 00:38:47,270 there's lots of fish and also that's the 908 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:49,190 evolution from the seat man there that 909 00:38:53,770 --> 00:38:52,130 bit Wow actually what's your favorite 910 00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:53,780 part apart that they had the dramatic 911 00:38:57,310 --> 00:38:55,730 bit with the assassination of Kennedy is 912 00:38:58,810 --> 00:38:57,320 it one that you go that's interesting 913 00:39:02,290 --> 00:38:58,820 people should look at that bit more well 914 00:39:04,359 --> 00:39:02,300 I'm Stein appears that this is I'm Stein 915 00:39:06,130 --> 00:39:04,369 with this i equals mc-squared building 916 00:39:08,650 --> 00:39:06,140 it up on a on a chalkboard is little 917 00:39:10,180 --> 00:39:08,660 table diesel yeah yeah I mean I like 918 00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:10,190 this kind of you know this almost 919 00:39:15,670 --> 00:39:12,560 steampunk um you know the wheels of 920 00:39:19,930 --> 00:39:15,680 society grinding them and turning around 921 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:19,940 but I mean for me this this big 922 00:39:25,660 --> 00:39:21,650 scientific question that is trying to 923 00:39:27,340 --> 00:39:25,670 answer is the most exciting csiro did a 924 00:39:29,770 --> 00:39:27,350 number of studies over that kind of 925 00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:29,780 intervening 50 years in one day since he 926 00:39:35,830 --> 00:39:32,960 painted this and you know asking what is 927 00:39:37,540 --> 00:39:35,840 the ass sustainable population of a 928 00:39:40,330 --> 00:39:37,550 country like Australia obviously it 929 00:39:41,620 --> 00:39:40,340 changes and evolves a few years ago some 930 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:41,630 of those studies were saying the number 931 00:39:46,570 --> 00:39:44,450 is something closer to 14 million of 932 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:46,580 course we've gone way past that and so 933 00:39:49,359 --> 00:39:48,290 that's why you know the work that's 934 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:49,369 being done in this building is so 935 00:39:54,099 --> 00:39:52,250 important because at technologies change 936 00:39:57,340 --> 00:39:54,109 to help us some change the answer to 937 00:39:59,380 --> 00:39:57,350 that question I think look and it's and 938 00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:59,390 also if you worked here you would tend 939 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:00,800 to get used to it and walk past it 940 00:40:03,849 --> 00:40:02,450 almost every day but you seem to be in 941 00:40:05,740 --> 00:40:03,859 awe of it even though you do see they're 942 00:40:08,260 --> 00:40:05,750 fairly often III think it's beautiful in 943 00:40:09,310 --> 00:40:08,270 fact it's at one point in the 70s there 944 00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:09,320 so there's a little guard rail 945 00:40:12,490 --> 00:40:10,640 protecting it from people although 946 00:40:16,210 --> 00:40:12,500 people do tend to and use the guard rail 947 00:40:18,940 --> 00:40:16,220 to lean up on at one point in the 70s 948 00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:18,950 I'm told they talked about putting Mason 949 00:40:24,099 --> 00:40:22,430 I over it to protect it and you know in 950 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:24,109 turning this area into an office which 951 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:25,730 would have been a travesty it's lovely 952 00:40:30,050 --> 00:40:28,010 that are still around and so gorgeous I 953 00:40:32,270 --> 00:40:30,060 love that 954 00:40:34,670 --> 00:40:32,280 we're putting it behind a wall certainly 955 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:34,680 would protect it well and truly but then 956 00:40:39,260 --> 00:40:36,450 it would then 10 years they don't might 957 00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:39,270 forget it's even there yeah what what I 958 00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:42,150 think is that inking pen talked about 959 00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:44,520 when he came up here he said this is 960 00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:47,310 kind of the original PowerPoint this the 961 00:40:52,430 --> 00:40:50,550 idea behind this was you know you had it 962 00:40:54,110 --> 00:40:52,440 in the 60s you have a client in your 963 00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:54,120 office you're trying to explain you know 964 00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:55,920 some agricultural technique or con 965 00:41:00,830 --> 00:40:58,650 scientific concept you know a pre 966 00:41:02,810 --> 00:41:00,840 computers drag them out into the foyer 967 00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:02,820 point to the mural let's talk about you 968 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:04,110 know crop rotation let's talk about 969 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:06,930 whatever yeah fascinating look thank you 970 00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:08,250 for showing is this this is a great 971 00:41:13,790 --> 00:41:12,240 thank you welcome because what I'd like 972 00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:13,800 to do it every convention is to get 973 00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,390 around and talk to the people that are 974 00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:17,040 presenting but also talk to the people 975 00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:18,510 that are just here to have a look around 976 00:41:23,390 --> 00:41:21,540 who we got danville arm and what's your 977 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:23,400 interest here you're a longtime skeptic 978 00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:25,290 fellow traveler just a general 979 00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:27,780 troublemaker a general troublemaker for 980 00:41:33,110 --> 00:41:31,260 the anti Max's ah now that obviously is 981 00:41:34,250 --> 00:41:33,120 a passion that burns with you how did 982 00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:34,260 you get involved with it why did you 983 00:41:39,590 --> 00:41:35,910 decide okay I have to stand up and say 984 00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:39,600 something ah well that started in 2010 985 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:41,910 when Meryl dori came to Perth and 986 00:41:47,210 --> 00:41:44,970 received a lot of media attention from 987 00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:47,220 oh yes I remember that did she end up 988 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:48,540 resenting anywhere because she was at 989 00:41:52,460 --> 00:41:49,890 one stage claiming that the Chi was 990 00:41:55,070 --> 00:41:52,470 under threat and she did end up 991 00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:55,080 resenting at the state library was at 992 00:41:59,210 --> 00:41:56,730 the time this year was receiving a lot 993 00:42:01,970 --> 00:41:59,220 of negative attention from the hatred 994 00:42:05,260 --> 00:42:01,980 will see that recently revoked their 995 00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:05,270 charity fundraising license 996 00:42:11,100 --> 00:42:08,230 and that's when I first got involved and 997 00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:11,110 yeah it all started from there and then 998 00:42:15,460 --> 00:42:14,000 2012 she took out a court should try to 999 00:42:18,250 --> 00:42:15,470 obtain a court order against myself 1000 00:42:22,180 --> 00:42:18,260 Peter bowditch and Daniel Rafael to 1001 00:42:25,110 --> 00:42:22,190 silence us on the internet which was 1002 00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:25,120 only resolved in august of this year 1003 00:42:31,410 --> 00:42:27,200 resulting in her paying the eleven 1004 00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:31,420 thousand dollars in my legal expenses so 1005 00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:34,160 has this in any way slowed you down in 1006 00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:37,310 your activism I know if anything the 1007 00:42:41,710 --> 00:42:39,400 fact that she's trying to silence 1008 00:42:43,330 --> 00:42:41,720 science myself and the others it just 1009 00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:43,340 shows that we are eventually getting to 1010 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:45,200 her and having an effect on her 1011 00:42:51,070 --> 00:42:49,850 organization I endo out have you admit 1012 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:51,080 the woman have you ever actually had a 1013 00:42:56,410 --> 00:42:53,570 chance to have a ever word with her at 1014 00:42:59,680 --> 00:42:56,420 all no I've only ever once been in the 1015 00:43:03,460 --> 00:42:59,690 same building as her which was during 1016 00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:03,470 her seminar in 2010 hmm and what did you 1017 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:04,640 make of the seminar you were there 1018 00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,290 obviously taking notes and now did you 1019 00:43:09,610 --> 00:43:08,240 uh did you stand up and say anything a 1020 00:43:11,980 --> 00:43:09,620 time put your hand up or anything at the 1021 00:43:14,110 --> 00:43:11,990 question time at the end was it I know 1022 00:43:17,830 --> 00:43:14,120 at that point I just left there's only 1023 00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:17,840 so much of dori there at one can take so 1024 00:43:21,310 --> 00:43:19,520 what are you looking at next is it some 1025 00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:21,320 other other issue on the net that you 1026 00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:22,910 feel like you might like to take on I 1027 00:43:25,570 --> 00:43:24,110 mean you've been a bit of a bit of a 1028 00:43:26,890 --> 00:43:25,580 single issue so far and I can certainly 1029 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:26,900 understand you're concentrating on that 1030 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:28,610 but I want to spread your wings a little 1031 00:43:34,210 --> 00:43:31,610 bit yes I homeopathy continues to be a 1032 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:34,220 problem and nobody sees the major 1033 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:36,410 problem with it it's people just 1034 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:38,090 hydrating themselves if indeed there is 1035 00:43:41,470 --> 00:43:39,890 nothing in there they're just having a 1036 00:43:45,730 --> 00:43:41,480 drink of water basically aren't they I 1037 00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:45,740 know it's when someone such as Francine 1038 00:43:50,890 --> 00:43:48,710 sprayin in Perth convinces one of their 1039 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:50,900 patient or their victims to give up 1040 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:52,850 conventional cancer treatment in favor 1041 00:43:57,570 --> 00:43:54,890 of sugar pills and then the patient 1042 00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:57,580 ultimately dies as a result 1043 00:44:02,610 --> 00:43:59,680 and what is the main way you want to act 1044 00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:02,620 against that I haven't decided what the 1045 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:05,830 best approach for this one is yet yeah 1046 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:08,530 and it is a central forum is it asserts 1047 00:44:14,700 --> 00:44:11,170 is the organization similarly based to 1048 00:44:16,890 --> 00:44:14,710 the avn I know home you know they do 1049 00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:16,900 have a homeopathic Association but they 1050 00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:19,020 seem to be much more independently 1051 00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:21,190 operating than the anti-vaxxers which 1052 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:24,310 makes it harder to target okay well I 1053 00:44:26,460 --> 00:44:25,210 think we'll be talking to you about 1054 00:44:29,220 --> 00:44:26,470 something like this at next year's 1055 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:29,230 conference I feel yes hopefully there'll 1056 00:44:51,950 --> 00:44:50,330 hey this is Jay novella from the 1057 00:44:53,870 --> 00:44:51,960 skeptics guide to the universe podcast 1058 00:44:55,730 --> 00:44:53,880 did you know that there are thousands of 1059 00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:55,740 skeptical reports interviews and 1060 00:45:00,170 --> 00:44:57,450 investigations going back to nineteen 1061 00:45:03,410 --> 00:45:00,180 eighty one free to download just visit w 1062 00:45:05,330 --> 00:45:03,420 WC optics com a you click the 1063 00:45:07,310 --> 00:45:05,340 publications link and enjoy almost every 1064 00:45:09,260 --> 00:45:07,320 back issue of the skeptic the journal 1065 00:45:10,820 --> 00:45:09,270 from Australian skeptics you can also 1066 00:45:13,100 --> 00:45:10,830 subscribe online and get the latest 1067 00:45:15,110 --> 00:45:13,110 digital or hard copy of this the world's 1068 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:15,120 second oldest skeptical magazine that's 1069 00:45:34,990 --> 00:45:18,810 ww skeptics Comte you or just google 1070 00:45:41,359 --> 00:45:37,370 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1071 00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:41,369 zone on this hot day in Sydney and 1072 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:44,910 around Australia I'm just having a look 1073 00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:46,770 over to the corner there the TV's got 1074 00:45:52,210 --> 00:45:49,500 the news on Victorian fires emergency 1075 00:45:54,740 --> 00:45:52,220 warnings going on right now as I speak 1076 00:45:56,839 --> 00:45:54,750 coming up on the skeptic zone in the 1077 00:45:58,730 --> 00:45:56,849 coming weeks even more from Maynard at 1078 00:46:02,960 --> 00:45:58,740 the National Convention with more 1079 00:46:05,630 --> 00:46:02,970 insights and interviews Wow I mean I 1080 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:05,640 knew he was busy at the time my friends 1081 00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:07,290 but when I looked down a list of 1082 00:46:10,070 --> 00:46:08,730 interviews he's actually given me it's 1083 00:46:12,589 --> 00:46:10,080 staggering I don't think he actually 1084 00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:12,599 made it to bed at all he must have been 1085 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:14,880 up all night in doing people and again 1086 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:16,130 thank you to all the people who 1087 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:18,210 sponsored Maynard chipped in a little 1088 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:20,010 bit of money to cover his costs in 1089 00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:22,050 Melbourne was fantastic a great use of 1090 00:46:27,260 --> 00:46:26,040 your contribution as you now know over 1091 00:46:29,210 --> 00:46:27,270 the weeks and weeks of wonderful 1092 00:46:32,690 --> 00:46:29,220 interviews from Maynard Thank You 1093 00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:32,700 Maynard and if you want to help produce 1094 00:46:38,900 --> 00:46:36,270 the skeptic zone just go to www skeptics 1095 00:46:41,810 --> 00:46:38,910 own TV at the top there's a link and for 1096 00:46:44,780 --> 00:46:41,820 just 99 cents a week you can really help 1097 00:46:47,210 --> 00:46:44,790 our the skeptic zone via micro payments 1098 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:47,220 with paypal well it's time for me to 1099 00:46:54,620 --> 00:46:51,810 have another slug of this ice water it's 1100 00:46:56,750 --> 00:46:54,630 disappearing fast and I'll look forward 1101 00:46:58,700 --> 00:46:56,760 to your company next week on the 1102 00:47:01,880 --> 00:46:58,710 skipping zone but for now this is 1103 00:47:08,540 --> 00:47:01,890 Richard Saunders signing off from a very 1104 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:08,550 hot and steamy Sydney Australia you've 1105 00:47:15,950 --> 00:47:11,130 been listening to the skeptic zone 1106 00:47:19,010 --> 00:47:15,960 visit our website at www skeptics on TV